Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. It worked well - just like wallpapering. . But there are downsides. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Step 8: Allow to dry. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. No, that doesn't sound right. I trust it and have never had a callback. I simply sponge off the excess. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The site is called floorelf.com. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. I would get someone else. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. 1. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. It fell right off? Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. The shower is ready for tile. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. I also used the Kerdi drain. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . Why is this the case? Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. When installing KERDI with . One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. We sponge water onto the cement board. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. Installation. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. I'm thirsty. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. It only takes a minute to sign up. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Any recommendations? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . In my. #3 This is a DIY site. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Find the website that's made specifically for you. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Step 1: Measure the area. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. All it takes is the right preparation. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. 120 sq feet including the floor. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Why you use cement board? You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? Will add it in. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate.